I can’t remember which comic made this observation, but it struck me as incisive:
Imagine somebody from outside of America looking at this presidential race, “You people have 330 million people to choose from, right? And from that vast selection, these two are your best choices to be your leader? How bad are the rest of you?”
We don’t have a free electorate. We can’t choose to vote for who we want. Two powerful groups choose and we can select from between those choices. We have zero say in who holds power, we can only tilt the scales to one side or the other.
It’s airline food: do you want the chicken or the fish? Neither? Too bad, that’s all you have.
Can anyone remember the last time we had a fair primary where the parties didn’t directly manipulate or change outright who we could choose?
Who would you have wanted to vote for? Please name your choice, or give us a short list.
Some of those I would vote for over either of these two guys:
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Alas, Paul the Octopus is no longer with us.
Much like Biden.
Those sound like good choices. Why aren’t they at the top of the ticket? Because of the two powerful groups?
Beats me, but if Liz Cheney ran against Pete Buttigieg, we would at least be making a choice between their policies and their notions of government, rather than being forced to reject either mental weakness or mental illness.
What Scoop said.
I’m positive the democrats could have found ANYONE more electable than Gramps. You wouldn’t trust him to drive himself to the grocery store but he’s the most powerful man in the world because his ego wouldn’t let him gracefully step down to accolades for doing the right thing.
The Republicans, if they could sever themselves from the cult and return to the business of operating the greatest country on earth, would have a tougher time. A bunch of sober, serious people on that side have just walked away from all of it. The whole party hasn’t had a message since the neocons took over during Dubya’s reign. In any other universe they’d go the way of the whigs and a moderate party would appear in their place, but we’ve got the two party blues and there ain’t no cure. Still, any number of people would be better than Agolf Twitler. It’s harder to come up with a list of people WORSE. Boeber, MTG, Gaetz, the open white supremacists like Tuberville and Cotton…from there the “worse than Trump” list gets extremely tough to populate. You could argue none of those people are worse, simply because they aren’t a threat to the republic.
So yeah. Never before have we had a “none of the above” year like this one.
I don’t agree with these conspiracy theories. The ‘two powerful groups that choose’ the nominees are the millions of primary voters.
1.I forget exactly how it came out, but when it was discovered that Donna Brazille gave the topics in advance to the Clinton campaign, she actually hinted but never outright said that the topics were given to all the Democratic candidates.
2.Other than Vice Presidents (and Trump) most Presidents come from either the ranks of Governors or U.S Senators. I looked this up recently and the vast majority of them are 60 or over. Only 38 of the 150 are under 60. 28 Senators (14 in each party) and 10 governors. Of course, a far number of those remaining 38 are implausible as Presidential candidates for other reasons.
Of course, some over 60 are viable, but out of the 330 million Americans maybe 25-30 are actually in place to get elected President and obviously they don’t start off with all equal odds either.
You don’t need any conspiracy theories to recognize that the choices are limited.
Finally, as much as I’ve said many times that Trump winning the Republican nomination in 2016 was a friendly merger and not a hostile take-over, it’s hard to believe that the top Republican officials wanted Trump to win the nomination.
The fact that the Republicans and Democrats exist is a conspiracy theory???
Let me guess: mountain dew covers up senility, right?
Suggesting that the two primary political parties have a stranglehold on US politics isn’t controversial. Kinda common knowledge.
When people running for relatively apolitical seats like county comptroller feel the need to put “conservative republican – pro life” on their campaign posters, it’s a sign of – severe- political dysfunction. Partisan politics are killing us.
I don’t disagree with that obviously, but I disagree there is any conspiracy behind any of this or any conspiracy in who wins the nomination (at least not initially), unless millions of primary voters are a conspiracy.
One can argue that the maintenance of the duopoly of Republicans and Democrats is a conspiracy of the two self interested parties and those who favor this status quo, fine, but when you look at the third parties, there’s also valid reasons why they remain fringe.
Sorry, the ‘at least not initially’ was meant to go with the duopoly. I changed that to ‘maintenance’ but had the ‘at least not initially’ in the wrong place.
You did not say Republicans and Democrats. You said “Two powerful groups choose”. I assumed you chose to say that because you meant something OTHER than the Republican and Democratic parties. If you meant the parties are the two powerful groups, why do you object to me using your own phrase?
Oh, and Scoop, I am not rejecting Trump because of mental illness, I am rejecting him because he is utterly incompetent at everything except self promotion, his administration was rife with scandals, and his policies vary from disastrous to revolting on many issues. I suppose you can argue those things are the result of his mental state, but I am voting against him because he is bad, not because he is crazy or senile. Similarly, I am willing to vote for Joe BIden because he is fundamentally decent, and has staffed his administration with very competent people, despite the fact that he is no longer what he used to be mentally. I am not arguing with your choices for who should be leading the tickets; I think you are right, But out of what we’ve got, I know my choice.
It’s kind of strange that some people still believe we have some kind of working democracy. We have 2 parties that are controlled by the very rich that don’t care about any of us. I guess some still want to believe in fairy tales. Maybe they find the alternative too depressing. At least it seems like more people are seeing it which is what we need if there is going to be any chance of real change moving forward. The system is fundamentally broken and needs to be fixed. Maybe term limits for all elected officials and limits on the size of donations would help, but that’ll never be passed by the current parties.
Wow. You can look at four years under Trump, and three and a half years under Biden, and pronounce that both parties “don’t care about any of us”? Do you not know anybody who could really use student loan forgiveness? Nobody who is LGBTQ? Nobody who has ever needed an abortion, or IVF? You didn’t grow up with active shooter drills in school? (Hey, I didn’t either. ARs weren’t everywhere back then, and the NRA was about to HELP write the Gun Control Act of 1968.) You didn’t lose anybody to Covid?
It must be great to be so isolated from so many of the troubles of the world. You get to be all superior and above it all, and unwilling to do anything until the system is perfected to your standards. Meanwhile, the rest of us have to live in the world we actually have.
I hear what you’re saying, and I respect Biden’s accomplishments, but isn’t this the time of life when we give ol’ Joe a gold watch and thank him for his service to the country?
Do you really think he’s capable of staying at the helm until early 2029?
Forget about 2029. Forget the election. I’m worried about the next few months.
If I were in the cabinet or Kamala’s seat, I would be giving the 25th some serious consideration. I’ve seen people go through senile dementia, and Joe is lookin’ terrifyingly familiar.
As others have pointed out here, we usually don’t get the choices we want. We get the choices we have. And voting for Trump is a vote for the death of democracy, IMO. Joe is not going to quit, and he has enough delegate locked up via the primary process to get nominated on the first ballot. So there is no way to get a new candidate, short of splitting the party. That is a formula for disaster; it’s how Teddy Roosevelt managed to get Woodrow Wilson elected in 1912.
It is amazing to me how many people are wetting themselves because Biden performed badly. They ignore two things: Biden has been a good President, and practically every statement made by Trump during the debate was a bald-faced lie, and insultingly stupid lies at that. Those two things are, to my mind, fatal for Trump.
Look, many voters are already committed to one candidate or the other. Both candidates are trying to attract the people who are still (God knows how) undecided. I think both candidates failed at that.
As to the future, who can tell? You are right to be concerned about Biden. But Trump has also declined sharply since 2020. Who is the better choice in that respect – the guy who listens to experts and follows their advice, or the guy who believes nutjobs like Alex Jones and thought drinking bleach was a great idea to fight Covid?
I agree that Biden had a very poor start and only got somewhat better. I disagree that an inability to explain policy well indicates a lack of understanding of the policy. Understanding something and being able to explain it are different skills though obviously the latter is impossible without the former.
So, all that’s to say that I think this desire from the media for Biden to step down as a candidate and for the nominee to be decided at the convention is likely nothing more than a fevered dream from them (and seemingly from other senior Democrats.) However I don’t think it’s impossible that could happen.
These are those who might run
U.S Senators
1.Mark Kelly, 60, Arizona
3.Chris Murphy, 51, Connecticut
3.Tammy Duckworth, 56, Illinois
4.Ben Ray Lujan,52, New Mexico
5.Tammy Baldwin, 62, Wisconsin
Governors
1.Gavin Newsom,57, California
2.Jared Polis,49, Colorado
3.J.B Pritzker,59, Illinois
4.Andy Beshear,47, Kentucky
5.Wes Moore,46, Maryland
6.Gretchen Whitmer,53, Michigan
7.Tim Walz,60, Minnesota
8.Josh Shapiro,51, Pennsylvania
Cabinet
1.Kamala Harris, 60, California
2.Pete Buttigieg, 42, Indiana
3.Gina Raimodo,53, Rhode Island
Sorry, one mistake, 21 governors are under 60. 11 Democrats and 10 Republicans. So, of the 150 Governors and U.S Senators, 49 are under 60.
It was quite something to watch the faces of the MSNBC panel after the debate, since they are all intelligent people who suddenly became aware that Donald Trump will be the President in January.
As Chris Hayes pointed out, the Presidency is actually a job in the communication field, and Joe Biden is obviously no longer qualified.
And Biden spent hours and hours preparing for the debate, gaming out responses, holding mock debates, etc. …
Imagine how bad it would have been if he had gone in cold!
I very much hope you are wrong this time, Scoopy. I’d like to think that Trump has been communicating who he is, both tonight and since 2016, and that that will cost him the election, but that is just a hope too.
“I very much hope you are wrong this time, Scoopy”
I second that.
Biden could at least be surrounded by competent people and would (I guess) listen to them. Trump doesn’t listen to anyone.
But I’m pretty sure Biden lost the election last night. I’m wondering whether I should go back and take another look at Brain-Worm Boy.
I’m not convinced Biden lost the election over this in so far as the polling is apparently showing this debate kind of reminded Americans what they don’t like about Trump. Apparently many/most Americans don’t like how he talked down America including that he referred to America as a’third world hell hole.’
I was actually surprised to the degree of Biden’s obvious decline in his communication facilities if nothing else because he is generally better in interviews.
However, it’s indisputable. For one thing, many political strategists will tell Presidents/Governors/Mayors, if they have a successful story to tell, to use the same phrases they used in their previous campaign to show how they’ve filled their promises. Ronald Reagan: “remember I asked you four years ago if you were better off than you were for years ago?”
Biden frequently said in 2020 that he would grow the economy ‘from the bottom up and the center out.’ I don’t know if this is well known in the U.S, and the data is sometimes inconsistent, but you can see graphs of productivity growth of the U.S vs the E.U vs Canada from 2021 to the present and while Canada and the E.U remain fairly flat, the U.S has a sharp upward spike. There is in economics a lot of debate over what’s behind this, from the U.S reopening its economy after Covid earlier to other things, but Biden actually has a very strong claim with legislation and executive actions both big and small, from right to repair, to largely banning non compete agreements, to the massive investments in the four spending packages. Biden didn’t even once mention ‘Bidenomics.’
I recognize many Americans still aren’t thrilled with the economy, but a competent communicator I think could have showed Americans in a credible way that things are getting better and will continue to get better and that these are some of the reasons why.
I can just imagine if Turn-On was parodying this debate. They would have had Joe Biden mess up bad lines from the 1950s like “Donald, you’re crushin’ for a bruisin’.’
Yup…understanding something and explaining something are two very different skills. My college math prof was brilliant but couldn’t explain things worth a damn.
Of all you listed only Gavin Newsome is viable Kamala Harris and Pete Buttigieg are already proven losers. As far as the others only Gretchen Whitmer is good. I believe a Newsome Whitmer ticket would send Trump and Republicans packing.
I’m with you on that. I’d prefer Whitmer/Newsome though; Gavin doesn’t have a great track record in Cali, and he comes off as an asshole. He can still function well as VP. Even better, Whitmer/Klobuchar.
Anyone can function as V.P., including Carrot Top and Rob Gronkowski. (Dan Quayle, e.g.)
The job has no job description except for breaking a tie in the Senate.
“But I’m pretty sure Biden lost the election last night.” Remember when Reps were panicking re: the Access Hollywood tape? Me neither. A day is an eternity in potus politics.
Tell me who wins WI/MI/PA and i’ll tell you who wins the election. American voters have the attention span of a peanut. Apologies to 🥜. It’s genius Biden’s “handlers” got Trump to agree to a debate this far out which no one one will remember. Did I mention American voters have the attention span of a 🥜?
Dukakis was 17 pts ahead of Bush after the 1988 Dem convention. 😮 Dukakis lost by 8 pts. ✔ Things change. Re: Biden/Trump all bets are off! 😛
Yielding back the balance of my time …
When the commentators on MSNBC are in tears, it’s getting close to the last round-up. Biden appears to be senile. How can anyone forget that?
If I were Kamala or in the cabinet, the election would be the least of my worries. I’d be thinking 25th.
I’m not sure who Biden would listen to – maybe Obama? So perhaps ol’ Barack should sit down and have a heart-to-heart with his friend and colleague.
If Biden does step aside Whitmer/Shapiro not a bad back-up plan. Dems would coalesce behind just about anyone who could beat Trump which would be just about anyone! 😛
If the media actually understood public policy (and could explain it) this would likely destroy Trump’s chances.
It is also easily the biggest U.S political story of the year. The wet dream of the fascist Federalist Society.
“The Supreme Court on Friday reduced the authority of executive agencies, sweeping aside a longstanding legal precedent that required courts to defer to the expertise of federal administrators in carrying out laws passed by Congress,” the New York Times reports.
“The precedent, Chevron v. Natural Resources Defense Council, is one of the most cited in American law. There have been 70 Supreme Court decisions relying on Chevron, along with 17,000 in the lower courts.”
“The decision threatens regulations in countless areas, including the environment, health care and consumer safety.”
“The vote was 6 to 3, dividing along ideological lines.”
I think with this and the other Supreme Court rulings today, it’s now time for the ‘blue’ states to seriously considering seceding from the fascist red states.
I haven’t read the details of the ruling on Chevron but, I know this is the gist:
Chevron created ‘the Administrative state’ which is that basically Congress said ‘we don’t have the time or the expertise to review everything that is impacted by a law or regulation like food regulations, environmental regulations…so we’re going to set policy guidelines along with the general regulations and hire experts (like those at the FDA, the EPA…) to review these things..
1.What this court did previously was make up something not in the U.S Constitution called they called the ‘Major Questions Doctrine’ which is to say that on ‘major questions’ that Congress could not delegate its authority to administrators. This ruling obviously extends that significantly to subject everything to possibly being a ‘major question.’
2,.The obvious question: who decides what is a ‘major question.’ A: The Supreme Court. This invites massive ‘legislating from the bench.’
2.The Supreme Court could have not gotten involved and left this up to Congress: if Congress has a problem with ‘the Administrative State’ they have every power available already to take back that power. After all, Congress gave them that power in the first place. However, this Supreme Court that lies it does not look at the politics damn well knows that this divided Congress is not in any position to do that.
3.So, instead, they struck down the Administrative State if not in whole then significantly lying that ‘well Congress can pass regulations’ knowing that (as above) this divided Congress is not in any position to pass anything.
So, what this Supreme Court has done is strike down in whole or in part the regulation of corporations on occupational health and safety, on the environment and on food, to name just three.
Ironically, to be sure not the Federal government, this is at the same time that the Supreme Court has ruled that localities can force homeless people to not be homeless????
One way to look at that is that to this Supreme Court, corporations have more rights than people, certainly a hallmark of a fascist/neo feudalist state.
Sorry, Chevron did not create the Administrative State. Chevron was the previous Supreme Court ruling that allowed Congress to delegate its authority to the Administrative State.
Biden not only killed his campaign last night, but brought a large swath of the media down with him. The same people who have been screaming “cheap fakes” for a week just got fact-checked live on the air by that walking corpse that shuffled out onto the stage. Why any undecided voter would believe a word from their mouths after that is beyond me.
One thing is clear: Joe Biden will not be president in January.
Uhu…let’s have someone insane as President…
The worst part for me was when Trump started babbling about golf, and Biden, who should’ve taken the op to ram a golf club down Trump’s throat, instead started talking about *his* golf score, like a mindless idiot.
Reminded me of OJ Simpson’s police interviews, and testimony in the civil trial. When asked questions that required incriminating answers, he never failed to start talking about golf. In fact, when asked why he had 11 fresh cuts on his hand the night of the murders, that weren’t there before the murders, he stated, “Oh I play a lot of golf, I always have nicks & cuts & stuff.”
The person who should be most ashamed today is Jill Biden. She knows what Joe is like behind the scenes, and there is no way she didn’t know what was probably going to happen. He should never have been allowed to run again. The only conclusion I can come up with is she is as power hungry as the candidates and doesn’t want to give up her seat on the throne. She should be ashamed of herself for letting her husband go out there.
Yeah, because the past three and a half years have just been AWFUL. Just one scandal and disaster after the other. And the President saying moronic stuff, like “drink bleach to prevent Covid!” and altering a a weather map with a Sharpie to make it look like his personal hurricane prediction was spot on. And running the deficit like a moon rocket with big tax cuts for the very very wealthy, and putting kids in cages…and well, you name it.
Oh wait. That’s your guy, isn’t it?
What are you talking about? My comment had absolutely zero to do with Trump. I don’t like either candidate. But clearly you haven’t dealt with a family member with dementia. Biden should not have been allowed to run again and the Democratic Party should have opened up the primary. They didn’t and last night was the result. If you think last night was a good thing for the party than you are blind. Last night (and the fact that Biden and Jill are adamant today that he is not leaving the race) means the chances of Trump winning goes up substantially.
Dude, just in case you are obtuse, my post pointed out that the Biden Administration has completely competent during its time during its time in office, especially compared to Trump’s travesty of a term. Do you think maybe that means more than this debate? Do you think it’s a reason not to hate on Jill BIden, for God’s sake? That reminds me of people yelling “Lock her up” about Hilary Clinton. What is up with that?
The last four years are in the past. Biden has lost his faculties in the present and it has a major impact on all of our futures. Yes, I will absolutely hate on Jill Biden because she seems to care more about holding onto power than doing what’s right. Many reports says she is the main force behind him staying in the race. Any democrat would have wiped the floor with Trump in that debate.
BTW…the kids in cages photos were actually from the Obama-Biden time in office.
Great! Scratch one scandal for Trump, I guess. Do you have any idea how many that leaves? Like all the self dealing with his hotels and the Secret Service, or trying to get Ukraine to fake up dirt on Biden, or promoting useless “cures” for Covid like hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin? I mean, the list goes on and on. Got anything to say about that?
It doesn’t scratch any scandal. It is simply true that occasionally the Obama Administration also allowed kids to be placed in cages temporarily.
The Trump Administration not only also did that but deliberately had children permanently separated from their parents in order to try to discourage parents with children from illegally entering the United States.
Even when they occasionally stumble on to the truth, you should never fall for the B.S of the brain-dead Trump cult.
That is technically true, but under Obama they were acting as shelters for kids who were unaccompanied. In that case, what choice did the authorities have? They had to have someplace to house them. The following administration turned that pragmatic necessity into a crime against humanity by separating kids from the families they arrived with – even taking away infants and toddlers. Under pressure, they did halt that process after a few months, but the last time I checked, there were still more than 1000 kids who still had not been reunited with their families – after some five years or more.
Here’s the thing my guy. Affording a house is my issue. Biden fucking ruined that. I’m not wealthy enough to obsess over the stuff the television tells me to obsess over, like his “attitude” and “character”. I want to afford groceries and have a roof over my head when I retire. Biden, even on his good days, seems much more concerned with making sure elementary school boys and girls can use the bathroom together than, you know, fixing the economy.
Idk, I thought it was amusing, but probably wouldn’t watch it again. I watched it mostly since a streamer I like was streaming it + I was doing other things.
He wasn’t world famous, but RIP Kinky Friedman 🙁
“I support gay marriage. I believe they have a right to be as miserable as the rest of us.”
Martin Mull also died today. RIP
The article linked to in this post begins with a quote from former GA Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan saying that if Trump had performed as badly as Biden in the debate, Republicans would be talking about “what maybe it would look like to have somebody else be the nominee.” That’s really a ridiculous statement. Maybe some Republicans would wish the GOP had a different nominee, but lots of Republicans wished that before the debate and continue to wish that after the debate. Unfortunately, there weren’t enough Republicans who wanted a different nominee during the primaries to defeat Trump. Now that the primaries are over, the only way for either party to get a nominee other than Trump or Biden is if one of those men chose to drop out of the race. The idea that Trump would drop out of the race for the good of the Republican Party or the good of the country would be genuinely hilarious if it weren’t so awful. The only thing Trump cares about is himself. Fortunately, Joe Biden does care about this country. I really hope when the post-debate polls come out, Biden’s support will have fallen through the floor because that might convince him to step aside and release his delegates so they can choose a different nominee, preferably someone other than Kamala Harris. I think Gavin Newsome would be a much stronger nominee. He is a relatively moderate governor who would not have to defend Biden’s presidential record. If Newsome were to win, Kamala could have the consolation prize of running for California governor. If she couldn’t win that election, there is no way she would have beaten Trump.