There is also pastry talk here and there. It’s obvious from the context that this is coded language. Many people have pointed out that “cheese pizza” was the code for “child porn” on 4Chan, but it’s not 100% certain that Epstein meant exactly this. For example, others refer to “pizza” as code for “piece of (ass).” Various people have speculated about “grape soda,” like “grape = rape,” but nobody has been able to decode it with absolute authority. I have not read any speculation about “Chinese cookie.”
The most upsetting thing about these communications is that the names (other than Epstein’s) have been redacted, in direct contravention of the Epstein Files Transparency Act.
For example, what legitimate reason could there be for redacting the name of the sender in this e-mail to Epstein:
You can probably figure out who that is by searching the Epstein files for other mentions of “Chinese cookie,” “pizza,” “go kno” and “grape soda.” Interestingly, the DoJ redacted one of the participants in that conversation, but not the other. (Somehow Woody Allen is also involved in that text. Now that I consider it, that’s probably not surprising.)
After I looked through the files, one thing that struck me is that the pizzagate QAnon nutbags were kinda-sorta on to something. They misread all the code, targeted all the wrong people, and got all the details wrong, but it seems there was a pedophile ring, and pizza was somehow related.
It’s amazing the lengths this Administration will go to to protect people who rape children. Gee, I wonder why that could be?
Appallingly greedy wealthy and powerful people who are above the law control the United States and the people to blame for this are…poor immigrants.
Well. I’ll let the Canadian guys deal with that argument. As I recall, Toronto is the most multicultural city in the world, and it seems to be surviving quite well.
And who in America isn’t descended from immigrants?
The neoliberal psychopaths also want you to blame the immigrants and not them. So, good job falling for it.
This guy parrots every idiotic Trump talking point, but no, he’s definitely not a Trumper.
Dude, we’re not as stupid as the people you’re used to hanging out with — you’re going to have to try a little harder.
Says he’s “not a Trumptard” then says “libtards.”
Yeah, sure you aren’t. You seem defensive of him…
Blame Biden all you want, but he wasn’t the one fucking kids. Like, you know, some sitting presidents I can think of.
Funny the insane alt-right nutjobs had this whole qAnon conspiracy made up of secret cabals of pedophiles with codewords in actual restaurants. Instead, turns out the answer was what anyone with a brain would have thought: rich assholes sending emails in the clear requesting their fucked up lifestyle.
That’s okay Trump will give them another tax break, dismantle any enforcement of justice, and throw a few more pardons to the multitude of others like this. How fucked up in the head do you have to be to actively think that Trump is doing nothing but supporting all the systems that allow people like Epstein and his clientele to exist through his policies? It’s clear as day to anyone with a functional moral compass.
These geniuses were storming pizza parlors to free pretend kids from non-existent basements, but all of the sudden they’re awfully quiet…
Did everyone see the part where a teenage girl told the FBI Trump forced her to give oral? You know, one of the files the DOJ pulled down after it was noticed that Trump’s name appeared?
And yet it all means nothing to his brainwashed cult of sister-fucking racist pussies.
One thing is certain: Trump was accused of some heinous acts.
I don’t think the Bureau considered the accusations credible. They could have been investigating him 2021-2024 in the Biden era, but they apparently did not.
But there’s still Trump’s infamous birthday card to Epstein, indicating that they shared a “wonderful secret.” That’s not hard proof of anything, but it is at least an indication that something is there.
Plus there’s still the other half of the files. (I guess.)
We don’t know how many of the redacted names could be trump.
Using coded language and metaphors? Do you feel Trump has the intellect for hints and subtlety?
Yes Donald Trump is a rapist pedophile.
As I said, he has been accused of many things. That doesn’t make the accusations true.
But it wouldn’t surprise me if they were.
That said, it isn’t relevant to my question. If the redacted name is someone with wit, intelligence and/or subtlety, I think we can safely assume it is not Donald Trump, who would just say “she was a hot piece of ass” rather than “she really served some delicious cheese pizza.”
1.Donald Trump is also not as stupid as he is sometimes accused of being. And, he has in fact used coded language at times. Obviously some of these times might still not be known or appreciated, but, for instance, it seems clear that when he said ‘stand back and stand by’ to the Proud Boys in the second debate with Biden that he was referring to what became January 6.
2.On the Democrats and especially Attorney General Merrick Garland. The overall sense from these files and from many other things is that wealthy and powerful people are protected in the United States, if for no other reason than campaign financing. Political bribery is essentially legal in the United States.
Written by another person on another board:
Democratic politicians are obviously not going to want to draw public attention to a pedophilic cabal when they are owned by that same pedophilic cabal.
again, this is why I keep mentioning the Marc Dutroux case. And Belgium is a healthier democracy than the United States.
I think the overall weight and direction of many of the accusations against Donald Trump make it clear he is a rapist pedophile.
You are forgetting that I went to school with Donald Trump, and I can assure you that he is, in fact, even stupider than the harshest accusations against him. Why do you think he is so terrified that anyone would see his grades and his SAT scores? But you should know that. He has publicly demonstrated that he is nearly illiterate, is totally innumerate, has the vocabulary of a second grader, and is capable of only the simplest, childlike judgments.
His intelligence is probably average, but when you combine that with pathological narcissism (thinking he already knows everything), he is nearly incapable of learning. And I’m not sure about whether to drop “nearly” from that sentence.
And again, accusations are not the same as guilt, no matter how many times you repeat your mantra.
This can be taken both ways since he also graduated university. This also shows the favoritism and protection that the wealthy and the powerful receive in the United States.
I don’t fully agree, Trump is lazy and stunningly ignorant, but I think he also often demonstrates a cunning that is often underestimated (not that I think this makes him an expert at ‘4D chess.’)
As President and probably in everything in life, Trump has demonstrated that he is a toddler who wants everything he wants without understanding the need for tradeoffs or to make choices, so I don’t doubt for a second that if Trump wanted to rape a child that he would do so.
You can absolutely bet that he got through college because he got his sister and a smart friend to do his take-home assignments. The buzz on him at Fordham was that he was a D or F student on tests, but a B+ student on papers, giving him about a C+ cum overall.
Don’t forget that one of his Wharton profs called him “the dumbest goddamn student I ever had.”
Don’t forget that he tried to muliply 17×6 on Howard Stern, and came up with a four digit number.
Don’t forget that he thinks you can reduce drug prices by 500%
The combination of mediocre intelligence and pathological narcissism is really tantamount to substantial cognitive disability.
Given Trump’s laziness though, I doubt you saw the ‘real Trump’ in school. Given that he knew he’d pass anyway, it’s unlikely he put any effort at all into his schooling. So, it’s not a surprise that his attitude would be why should I put any effort at all into this?
I don’t want to make too much of the comparisons between Trump (and Epstein) and Charles Manson and his family, but there are obvious enormous parallels between Trump and Manson. Two lazy and enormously whiny and entitled psychopaths/malignant narcissists (not to mention both virulent racists and sexists.)
But, even Clem (Steve Grogan) learned to use coded language and metaphors (and so did everybody else in the Family) for those who thought he was a total moron, and for those who thought he was a lot more intelligent (which seems to be the case), he learned to play the total moron at Manson’s suggestion.
You seem to ignore that Trump wouldn’t have come up with the coded language by himself (if you think he’s a total moron) but that he would either have worked it out with Epstein, or would have been told it by Epstein.
There really isn’t much point of speaking in code if the other person/people don’t understand it.
College performance is not the only indication of his mental immaturity. There is also the vocabulary and the everyday math. Ol’ Clem probably also knew that you can’t reduce something by more than 100%
Trump is not a moron. He’s a person of average intelligence with pathological narcissism. Narcissists are theoretically capable of learning, but do not, because they think they already know everything. Cognitive disability and pathological narcissism basically manifest identically.
Trump has spoken in public for thousands of hours, and as far as I can remember, the only clever, non-literal thing he has ever come up with was to call Elizabeth Warren “Pocahontas.” If he really made that one up, a tip of the cap. And even if somebody else created it for him, he at least understood it. But that’s just about it for a lifetime. The rest of his nicknames are just direct, grade-school insults: Little Marco, Sleepy Joe, Sloppy Steve, Fat Alvin, Maggot Hagerman, etc.
Two possible exceptions:
1. He did call AOC “Evita” once, which was at least figurative, although the women have nothing in common except a Hispanic background. Most of the time he just calls her “Stupid AOC,” or a “”Low IQ individual,” although she graduated cum laude, and was once in a science research program for gifted students. Basically “Low IQ” is his way of saying “non-white woman,” but he doesn’t think he’s speaking in code. He actually assumes that all women of color are stupid.
2. I don’t know whether he originated Kung Flu as a nickname for COVID-19. I have to think that is far too clever for him, but he at least understood it well enough to use it.
That’s about it. Thousands of hours of public speaking and social media rants, and pretty much nothing else but childish utterances and self-aggrandizement. Dozens of appearances on Howard Stern, and nothing to indicate he ever used non-literal expressions. (Although the Stern appearances definitely make your pedophilia accusation a possibility.)
If you look at the “pizza and grape soda” guys in depth, you will see things like clever movie references – stuff way beyond Trump’s capabilities.
From the same board I quoted from earlier, different poster this time
There is a meme going around that the world is just a sex club for 500 royals, politicians, and billionaires, and the rest of us are just the help. I have come to believe it.
It would sort of explain why Trump has inexplicably pardoned people that would normally be his enemies, like Blago and Juan Orlando Hernández. They were members of his club.
On Trump’s intelligence: I don’t put a ton of credibility in any of the tips versus the actual emails, what I think is the bigger issue is listing all the issues with Trump and systemically rewarded with money and power in society. Just as bad, or worse, is reading the large background story of Epstein a few weeks ago and how he came to power. Essentially schmoozed and scammed his way taking people’s money to becoming a power broker. The man was a white collar criminal before he became a trafficker.
Epstein rose during the GOP’s trickle-down “golden years” of Reagan and so did Trump. Men who don’t produce better goods and services, get allocated world’s resources off their merit, or make the world a better place in any way.
And these are the stupid ones with a public spotlight on them, it makes me wonder how many Epstein-likes are out there with the intelligence to keep a low profile hidden behind LLCs and laundering, who’s nefarious activities continue along with impunity?
I have a theory that Trump didn’t have sex with underage girls — because I don’t think he has ever accused anyone else of it. Projection is his “tell.” If he accuses somebody else of some bad behavior, there is near certainty that he has done it himself. (Another trait of narcissists is that they assume everyone else should think the way they do.)
While I think it is accurate that Donald Trump has not personally accused anybody of being a pedophile (although I’m not sure that he hasn’t accused anybody of being a ‘groomer’) it is also the case that some of the Q Anons and many of the Evangelical (pseudo) Christians have come up with a stupid conspiracy theory that Trump is in the Epstein files (and before that that he associated with Epstein) because Trump is heading up some secret organization that is trying to uncover the worldwide cabal of pedophiles.
This relates as well to pizzagate, and I’m pretty sure that Trump has leaned heavily into this. So, while Trump may not have accused any specific individual of being a pedophile, I’m pretty sure he has played up that he is fighting pedophiles.
In regards to what’s already been mentioned about why it’s clear that Trump is a rapist pedophile, Trump also owned Miss Teen USA with all those girls who independently said that Trump spied over them in the dressing room or similar claims and I think given these many reasons to believe that Trump is a pedophile, his ownership itself of Miss Teen USA should be reexamined in that light as be recognized as totally creepy.
Finally and possibly most importantly, there are respected people in the intelligence community who have stated that it’s an open secret that Mossad and other intelligence agencies have known for years that Trump is a rapist pedophile.
If we’re going to need Trump being convicted of pedophilia to state that Trump is a rapist pedophile, then, of course, those who want to deny the mountain of evidence that Trump is a rapist pedophile will always be able to do that.
Now now. They aren’t sister fuckers.
They’re too old. They’re daughter fuckers.
Politics aside, though worth noting I don’t typically vote right, more left of center, but to believe Trump is a pedophile strikes me as extreme, and it is likely not a valid perception of the person. To me, Trump is not a thinker. It’s on display each time he speaks. He is terribly inarticulate speaking about anything that is even remotely complex, including things involving his own personal self. I’m not necessarily trying to rip him, since there are others ways to gauge intelligence. I’m sharing my own observation. I do not, however, believe the man is a pedophile. It broadens the real definition too much. Gates, Clinton, Prince Andrew, etc. etc.. not peds. Just powerful dudes who wanted hot young chicks. I think it behooves us not to recognize the difference. Having said all this, there is still a moral issue at play. Men wanting this type of action, for lack of a better term, are not necessarily abnormal. They might be overly curious, or at worst, they let their sexual deviances carry them too far. Still.. not actually pedophiles. However, pretty piss poor decisions given their status, notoriety, etc.
Everyone knows it’s not true, but they don’t care. They hate Trump and it is their religious duty to believe whatever the television tells them to believe.
The proof is in the pudding. We’ve seen that Bill Clinton and Bill Gates were 100% banging kids with Epstien…and no one cares. It’s just being hand-waved away because this is a team sport and they want to get the OTHER guy.
So much for actually caring about pedophiles lol.
My guess is that Trump probably didn’t have sex with children, but the DoJ redactions are obviously protecting people (100% certain), and they are doing so in direct violation of the law (also 100% certain).
So the proper questions are: (1) “Who are they protecting”; and (2) “Why?”
I think the most likely answers are (1) “The grape soda drinkers are Trump’s buddies/donors”; and (2) “Because Trump told them to.”
If you have a more likely answer to those questions, I’d love to hear it, because I can’t think of any other reason why DoJ would be redacting the authors of those incriminating texts and e-mails, when it is illegal to do so. It must be at Trump’s orders, because I can’t see any other circumstance where Pam Bondi would simply choose to break the law. Trump will not be President forever, and Bondi could well go to jail for what she has done here. In fact, she could be disbarred now, because Trump has no control over that.
So, I think you may be right about Trump not being a kiddie-diddler himself, but you are ignoring the fact that he’s protecting the kiddie-diddlers who would be exposed with unredacted files.
(He admitted this in his conversation with MTG.)
Frankly, it is time for MTG and the victims to do what they keep threatening to do: get the names of their abusers on the record. If they wait for DoJ to do the legal and right thing, they will have a long wait.
And you may well be wrong. Trump realizes pedophilia is kryptonite so he’s not going to go there unlike his other projections.
Trump: “I’ve said if Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her.”
We don’t have direct evidence that any of them were having sex with trafficked underage women. (And certainly in the case of Trump, if there were such evidence it will have long been destroyed by the current Administration which is entirely corrupt, as everyone – including Republicans – well knows.) But my belief, and the belief of most people, is that many of these wealthy cretins were doing it: Clinton, Gates, Trump, the Duke of York, and many others. This is not a partisan thing – Democrat vs. Republican – as there were members of both parties very likely involved. Rather, this is a reflection of the attitudes and actions of certain ultra-wealthy men.
You’re insane if you think anyone on the left gives a shit about Bill Gates or Bill and Hillary Clinton. The sentiment for a long time has been fuck Bill Clinton. And I don’t know of anyone who’s ever supported Bill Gates or Microsoft.
That’s the ironic thing about the right, you people think anyone gives a shit about any given person as a cult of personality like the right does. GOP and MAGA have always been about the authoritarian cult of personality – the decrepit old guard love to deify Reagan and in the modern era I’ve never seen as many people tie their personal identity to Trump like MAGA. You can’t go anywhere in Trump country WITHOUT finding a bunch of shitty merchandise, flags, bumper stickers everywhere.
Okay, pedo groomer.
Perfect.
I was referring to TrutherBob in case that wasn’t clear.
Sorry, but I disagree entirely. Part of the psychology of the wealthy and powerful is affluence and entitlement – a sense that they sit above the common man. That dehumanizing trait is what causes these kinds of people to commit such heinous acts – a belief that they can do whatever they want to please to their own selfish desires. I mean, we’ve all seen how the justice system treats people of wealth. For sure, there might be outliers, but on the whole, if you know the right people and have the right leverage, you won’t face justice. Does anyone really believe that ‘Mountbatten-Windsor’ will ever be behind bars? Or a current/former US President?
To me, I see Trump as being the kind of person who’s so dimwitted and in desperate need of validation, that he’ll openly brag about his ‘entitlements’ – “grabbing women by the pussy” or ‘wonderful secrets’ etc. If Epstein offered that dope an underage girl and the promise of complete impunity, there’s no doubt in my mind what a person who considers himself a ‘king’ would do – no doubt at all.
Few of us can really even conceive of what true wealth is – mansions, jets, exotic sports cars – all meaningless. The irony is that when you have everything, you have nothing. So, the only thing left for those bored of decadence is the perverse – being beyond the reach of the law becomes the ultimate thrill. Not convinced? Just look at all of those redacted names in the Epstein files and tell me I’m wrong.
Agreed
And the reason they get away with it is exactly because of the enabling attitudes expressed by Mike Lee.
Butcha speaks the truth on this issue.
Again, looking at the Manson case, one thing that was left out of Bugliosi’s Helter Skelter, the supposed complete record of the Manson case, was that Bugliosi left out that Dennis Wilson, Terry Melcher and Gregg Jacobson were three friends who called themselves collectively The Golden Penetrators (their is no subtetly or code to that name.)
Dennis Wilson was wealthy to be sure and Terry Melcher was an up and coming young music executive (you’d think he was a middle age serious person from Helter Skelter) and the son of Doris Day and Jacobsen was, I think, Melcher’s assistant. So, these weren’t even the most wealthy or powerful people, but in Los Angeles the leading people in entertainment were protected, and this was at least as much for the entertainment company executives as for the artists. And Manson was totally jealous and absolutely desired to be part of this.
Jeff Guinn’s Manson book tells the story of Gregg Jacobson being initiated into the group with Melcher and Dennis Wilson. Melcher and Wilson engage in teen vandalism behavior of destroying the ligtbulbs in street lamps, except rather than using rocks they use guns. They hear a police siren and Jacobson says to them “we’ve got to get out of here. We could go to jail” and Wilson and Melcher both laugh. The police arrive and say “Oh it’s you two. Sorry, we have to confiscate your guns this time because we received a public complaint of gun shots. But, you can pick up the guns at the police station tomorrow. Try to stay out of trouble for the rest of the night.”
This is exactly how the system creates natural selection for sociopaths to become rich and powerful. First, we encode into law that shareholder wealth is top priority among all else for the primary business most people access goods and services. Second, these corporations incentivize it through compensation of stocks. Which has the effect of individuals not making goods and services better, but through the meta of stock buybacks, mergers and acquisitions, enshittification of products and services, and layoffs.
Then when those strive to move up the corporate ladder, they’re not doing so because of their benevolence or moral compass, they’re being selected based on striving for more wealth and power. You may have a few exceptions with original founders, like a Herb Kelleher, but its extremely rare nowadays.
The selection of sociopaths to be the most powerful is embedded in our system, but not only that but excess and consumption has been conflated as some form of charity. Billionaire wants a yacht? Well, that’s a job created for the person who created a yacht! It’s this kind of warped view of reality we’ve embedded in our system.
It enables narcissistic sociopaths to think they’re providing value to society by manipulating the meta of capitalism for personal gain. There’s no tribunal or council to keep the true motives of those on top of a hierarchy in check. They eventually become consumption addicts to the point of evil.
Think of all the good any of these people could have done, and choose not to. Any of them could become a MacKenzie Scott and still never worry about money the rest of their lives and they choose not to.
Mackenzie was Bezos’ conscience. Look at how big a prick he became after the divorce.
Yes, and the separation of the average person and the wealthy corporate elites and the maximization of profits leads to even further second order effects as we see in the auto sector: because profits are greater for more expensive vehicles, why make economy vehicles for the ‘little folks’ that mean more production lines which entails more work and complexity and that might cannibalize sales of the more expensive vehicles?
Riiiight. He just hung out with and sent birthday cards with creepy sexual innuendo to a guy who ran perhaps the most prolific child-sex ring we’ve ever exposed. The same guy who’s on record as having said super-creepy shit to the underage girls in his super-creepy beauty pageants, commented on how sexy his *daughter* is, and was caught on tape talking about grabbing women “by the pussy.”
Yeah, pretty tough to imagine him banging underage girls. Total leap.
From Massachusetts here. Local Boston media figure, Howie Carr, called Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas for years. Trump has been on his show many times and picked the name up from him. He did not come up with it.
The Justice Department exposed the names of dozens of Jeffrey Epstein’s victims, including many who haven’t shared their identities publicly or were minors when they were abused by the notorious sex offender. Pathetic but then the only names they were interested in protecting was Trump and other wealthy people.
He didn’t come up with “kung flu” either, to Scoop’s question above. I definitely heard that one going around and when Trump used it I was both appalled and amazed he’d heard it somewhere so soon.
Thanks!
Thanks! Well that pretty much leaves him with never having come up with anything clever in his entire life.
And that fits…he semi learned the Hitler playbook and that’s probably all he ever learned.
These were people who thought they were above the law and almost certainly felt that the underage girls were willing participants because of their power, money, and fame. I don’t buy that were openly calling themselves child porn rapists, not even in code. Piece of ass… sure
I thought pizza gate was a right wing conspiracy
Qanon, but same thing