I think there’s a simple solution: confiscate all his illegally-built wealth and deport him back to South Africa. Have the officers from ICE put him in handcuffs and drive him to the airport in one of these contraptions:
Kidding aside:
Musk has denied everything, despite a paper trail of court documents, company filings, testimony from a half-dozen associates, and Musk’s own e-mails.
As with Nixon, it’s always the lies and the cover-up that gets these guys in trouble. Tricky Dick could have said, “A bunch of bozos who thought they were helping me crossed way over the line into criminal activity, and they will be prosecuted. I knew nothing about their plans in advance, I condemn their actions, and I apologize to the American public that such deeds were done in my name. If any of my advisers or cabinet members knew about this, they will be dismissed, and the DOJ will prosecute them if appropriate.” The ol’ Trickster didn’t say that, got personally involved in the cover-up, and had to resign in disgrace to prevent impeachment, conviction, and being removed from the White House by an official escort.
Similarly, if Musk had just said “Yeah, I gamed the system for a few months,” the story would end right there. Who cares? So he’s a hypocrite about illegal immigrants since he was one? Big deal. We’re all hypocritical about some issue or another. Affects nothing. Embarrassing, but ultimately meaningless. People who like him will shrug. People who hate him will hate him a little more. I don’t like him or hate him, and I just don’t care about this at all. He could have told the truth, then ignored follow-up questions for about 24 hours, whereupon the news butcher-shop would have put something else in the grinder for us to digest.
Instead, he goes Full Nixon, serving up more raw meat for the punditsphere.
Oh, the lies! These guys just can’t help themselves, can they?
If Elon Musk isn’t deported immediately it shows the bias in the U.S immigration system.
Or the difference that expensive lawyers can make, a la O J Simpson. But maybe that’s the same thing.
He’s legal now, isn’t he?
At least I guess he is.
He just gamed the system a bit back in the day.
Does it really matter? He cheated the system, he needs to be deported immediately. Or maybe he should go to jail first for cheating the system and then be deported. Rules are rules.
In the US, the rules don’t apply to the super rich…they are above the law.
Living in the South, I’ve seen a number of these monstrosities. Honestly, why would anyone want to waste their money on that shit?
Farther north, I’ve seen a total of one so far. I think the point is to advertise that you don’t have to work. It’s obviously useless for doing truck things, it says “I’m a jackass (or jill-ass, no need to be sexist – like Zappa said, ‘Ladies you can be an asshole too.’) who leaked away a couple hundred grand on a toy and I have lots more cash laying around to fix it when it breaks from getting rained on or driven uphill or whatever.”
The guy paid more in taxes last year than all of us here will pay in their entire lifetimes combined. I’m giving him a pass.
+1
I suppose we should look the other way with Diddy as well by this reasoning.
Citation please.
He did have to pay a sizeable tax bill a few years ago. After years of paying nothing. That money of course was effectively reinvested in his companies which would be worthless if it weren’t for government cheese.
And Musk would be worthless unless it wasn’t for the collective knowledge, skill, and effort of the scientists and engineers that put craft into space and electricity into cars. Without them, you see on his own accord he does things like run Twitter into the ground.
Bottom line is if Musk, Gates, Bezos, and Buffet were to disappear tomorrow along with their accumulated hoarded resources from society, the sun would come up and no one would bat an idea. Wipe out the same equivalent of resources held by laborers that they look down upon, with millions of people, and the economy would come to a stop.
Musk is just a sociopathic opportunist of a system that doesn’t reward based on actual merit or value to society, but the ability to manipulate the command and control of capital. An aberration in the system a logical world would do better to correct if it came to its senses.
You forget that without a vision there is nothing to achieve. These people know exactly how to manage a giant company and who to surround themselves with.
In the beginning, everyone looked at Elon as stupid for transforming Twitter, and today X is the main platform for free speech, next to Telegram. I wonder why the EU wants to abolish both??? We all know the answer.
You can scold him, shame him or say anything about him, but he is one of the biggest role models in the world for hundreds of millions of people, as we can see the numbers of followers and admirers and also how many people in the world he is a motivation for.
Just like Cristiano Ronaldo/Lionel Messi or Rafael Nadal/Novak Djokovic, he is also a role model, in addition to being a controversial person.
Although somehow I always notice that aimless and bitter people complain and scold everyone and everything the most.
The joke is that you can’t even have your own opinion anymore because some funny clown thinks it’s a Russian bot talking. XDDDD
You know what, Stand among the sheep and follow the other fools, I recommend this to everyone!While gen z is getting rich off meme coins, boomers are arguing about bullshit. This is the order of the world right now.
A vision of what? NASA has already established a space program, alternative energy cars were in existence before Musk as well. Bezos didn’t invent logistics or utilizing computing infrastructure to host compute, storage, or network resources.
All of the above are natural progressions of what’s already occurred. Great man theory is a load of crap, and the ones closest to personifying it with actual engineering and technological jumps like Nikola Tesla died broke, as compensation isn’t tied to merit or genius. Manipulation and exploitation is. If you’re lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time, as well as ruthless enough to be exploitative for personal gain, several personas could fit that role.
The same engineers of Tesla or SpaceX could have achieved the very same things without Musk, and arguably cheaper without the overhead of his overpaid ignorant ass. In fact, most of the scientific advancements has collectively been achieved far before Musk even became a household name.
I would argue give the golden opportunity with government contracts he has, he should easily have been more successful at creating marketshare with Tesla by creating lower cost vehicles, instead of obsessing with odd aluminum can looking vehicles with over-reliance on novelty tech. Instead other automakers are already catching up with it despite having years of a head start.
I’m not going to answer in more detail because it’s unnecessary. You have decided that xy is an asshole and no one and nothing can change that.
Meh. That is pretty mediocre question dodging, Lector. 4/10. You need to respond, then change the subject, thus giving the appearance of answering without actually doing to. Using ad hominem attacks just invites more of the same against you, and frankly, damages your pose of intellectual superiority. You feeling OK?
Oh calm down my friend, I could answer this at length. But honestly, would it make sense?
Well, I’m not interested in the hurt. I always preferred being in the 1%. More precisely, I was brought up in this since my childhood. I should never follow the crowd, because the crowd is on the wrong path.
I also have an internal interest in Tesla, but I would definitely not get involved in that.
I would like to point out one thing. See how esteemed engineers talk about Elon.
I could link articles, but you can find them yourself. You don’t have to believe me, just read or listen to what they say about him.
I posted here a link to him commenting on how the middle class will have to go through hardship, when of course he demands of others sacrifice he won’t go through himself being one of the richest five or so people in the world.
And I’ve read about Elon, specifically the anecdotes in his own biography about what a moron he is. The guy, during Christmas time a few years ago, to avoid paying extra on a timeframe for a leased datacenter took it upon himself to go with a pickup truck and a couple of his idiot friends to rip the Twitter servers out of the floor of the datacenter and tried to load them onto a truck to the new center.
Whoever at the contracted IT firm holding the servers had to call him and tell him what a monumentally stupid idea it was, along with engineers and everyone else, even as he already damaged a few. Anyone else in the world would have been charged with destruction of property and damages, along with all the liability to fix the damages, as well as the manhour cost to his engineers to clean up his ignorant mess.
Instead, he gets praised for his ‘rugged individualism’ for his stupidity. There’s no role model there, there’s a facade of a guy who fell upwards in life due to chance of being in the right place to have an ignored market for EVs and the push for NASA to privatize, and has enough people around him to bail out his stupidity.
A) “I was taught to never follow the crowd because the crowd is always wrong” Wow. Anyone who cannot see the fallacy in always following a rule like that is both arrogant and blind, no matter what aspects of intelligence they possess. It is also the antithesis of democracy, and even of juries. BTW, what if a majority of people believe that? What happens to you then?
B) “I also have an internal interest in Tesla”. I don’t think that phrase means what you think it means.
C) “See how esteemed engineers talk about Elon” OK, I googled “what do esteemed engineers think about Elon Musk?”. You know what I found? Articles that absolutely support your point. If you cherrypick them. And arguments that support exactly the opposite point, or something in-between. If you cherrypick them. Well, that didn’t get us anywhere.
D) Why are you here? You don’t care what we think. You think we’re stupid. So why are you here, spouting your niche theories and telling us about how smart you are and how great Elon Musk is? Why are you doing that? I’d rather play 4-suit spider solitaire, myself.
You know there is a very interesting thing in life. That’s how losers always talk about successful people. Why aren’t you there? Why didn’t you fall upwards?
Are you jealous of him?
A. You are right, I am arrogant.
B. I really don’t want to get into this, I was stupid to bring it up as a topic. Let’s just say that in certain areas I have personal connections through family.
C. Google…People still don’t understand how much mainstream media influences them these days, it’s unbelievable to me. Specifically, millions are starting to see it every day, here for some reason still not.
D. I’m actually having a lot of fun. I don’t want to scold anyone, there is probably a huge age difference between us, as I am 27 years old. I’m not talking about niche theories at all, and that’s exactly the point. You all approach things from one side, and I from both sides. You don’t understand that I see both the good side of the Democrats and the Republicans, but also the bad side. I am fully rational. Emotions must also be excluded in financial matters, you probably add your investments in the same way.
Look, I’m from Europe and more and more people here are starting to see how big a problem there is with the current democratic politics. This could be seen in the current summer elections.
I absolutely support democracy, why would I support dictatorship systems?
Do you think it is good for anyone to see what is in North Korea??
You’re projecting Lector, if you’re referring to me. I’m an engineer and doing fine for myself and have had chances to move in the corporate ladder position. It’s not a matter of talent, it’s a matter of will and the ability to be a sociopath.
Why would I be jealous about moving into a position where the entire point is to step on people after a point, and also lose technical knowledge and meaning, where the only incentive is to become more sociopathic as you move up? I don’t wish to spend my life sitting on Zoom calls, sanctimoniously lecturing about shareholders or pretending to some genius because of a position then turn around and accept giant bonuses while planning reductions in the workforce or other crappy things to do to someone else for personal gain.
Also, what material things are there to be jealous of? I have enough money. I have shelter, a car, food, and enough to buy most things. As someone in technology, even I ask what metal and plastic things are out there that Musk has that anyone should be jealous over?
Success isn’t determined by what society says, and the fact he can’t shut his mouth up about his opinions for even a day and the amount of tantrums he throws on his platform shows the guy to be nothing but unhappy time and time again. There’s nothing to be jealous of. And he’ll be in the ground or ashes just like we all will be in a few decades or less. Guess all his genius and wealth can’t get out of that one, huh?
I actually agree with a few things. We can probably think similarly in several areas, but I think you absolutely do not understand what Elon Musk’s vision is. Think about it without emotion. Think about what his goals might be with Tesla, SpaceX, Neuralink.
The man is apparently not motivated by money. According to the engineers, he often sleeps inside the factory, even though he is the richest man in the world. He has a completely different vision and goals than money. Unlike others who are in the top 20 richest around.
I haven’t seen him do anything except run his mouth on his social media platform politically. We have very different definitions of work – I’m sure he may ‘work all the time’ under executive definition. He’s not on the computer designing schematics and making sure the physics of a rocket are correct or doing the actual intellectual or engineering work. He’s on Zoom calls to VPs or middle managers getting Powerpoints or spreadsheets updating progress.
There’s nothing novel about what he’s doing. Either in his daily functions or the companies he runs, which the hard engineering problems of EVs and space travel have been solved long before he came along. You wish to worship a guy who wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire, be my guest.
The vast majority of illegal immigrants are contributing though. America’s agricultural, service and construction industries wouldn’t function without them.
All those things you’re whining about are mostly committed by American citizens.
Actually, I’m already waiting for the Democrats to win and for America to see why dedollarization is one of the most important issues in the world and why more and more countries want to belong to the BRICS.
It is unbelievable to me that no one still sees how the western world is dying under the current management. And, of course, everyone will slowly become an enemy of the USA, according to the propaganda…
It is probably a coincidence that the bigger countries prefer to belong to the BRICS…
What nonsense.
I’m glad you answered that way, because that’s exactly what I see
BRICS? China and India don’t really get along and even shoot at each other occasionally. No one likes Russia, South Africa has relatively little to offer leaving Brazil whom are big enough that they can probably cut a deal with whoever they like. Including the US..
BRICS nations represent around 45 percent of the world’s population and 16 percent of global trade. Originally, comprised of four of the world’s fastest-growing emerging economies – Brazil, Russia, India, and China — South Africa joined two years later. This year, BRICS doubled in size to ten and now, nearly three-dozen more countries want to join, including Cuba. The bloc says it aims to promote peace, security, development, and cooperation in the Global South.
правда, товарищ
Precisely.
Funny you mention all those, but the budgets to handle those types of things are set by municipal city governments. City governments, especially in red states, where taxpayer money disproportionally go towards funding Trump heavy rural areas.
That’s the irony of the whole thing, MAGA nation complains about handouts to illegals, yet they get handouts from liberal cities who’s taxpayers are paying for upkeep up basic services in their backwoods counties. The ultimate irony is red counties get state welfare from liberal cities, and red states get federal welfare from blue states.
I’m cool with taking the state tax money coming from cities and redistributing it inside the city for law enforcement and civil services and letting rural America get a taste of freedom without handouts.
Good luck getting food, you moron.
Oh, right. Because the farmers are going to decide to stop selling the only thing they produce. To the only market they have ready access to.
We’ll just give mass citizenship to the immigrants who already do all the work via a ceremony like Reagan. Then deport all the Trump supporters to Central America and let them live like the people look down on.
Besides looking at that Nazi rally at MSG quite a majority of them could go a few days without a meal.
Why would anyone listen to your arguments or positions once they read your name, Sosick_etc? Once you express your contempt for us right up front, what’s the point in going a word further? Lousy technique for achieving anything. Is this the only time you get to feel good about yourself?
You see, this is exactly why I say that many people here are very uninformed. In other words, they only hear information from one side. Main stream media has a terribly harmful effect on people around the world.
For me he is neutral. I don’t love it, I have completely different role models. I am copying here what one of Tesla’s best engineers said about him:
My interview with the Autopilot team early 2016 was very different than most interviews I’d ever taken. We first had a technical discussion on something I had built before, with several engineers and the executive in charge of the group at the time. An actual white board chat where we were all bouncing ideas on the matter together. The only places I’d ever seen the face of anyone above, at best, a team lead during interviews was at some small startups.
Every 1:1 interview that followed was similarly practical. Real coding situations you’d encounter as an engineer, not useless LeetCode trick questions typically found in other big companies’ interviews. When we got done, the recruiter walked me through the office. Everyone was sitting literally next to each other: autopilot software, hardware, vehicle firmware, and many other teams interacting live without friction. Eventually, we walked past
@elonmusk
‘s desk and he was sitting right there, next to the engineering teams. Not in any separate ivory tower.
One week in the job, and I was already in a team meeting with him brainstorming Autopilot technical challenges, exactly how it went during my interview. And that went on almost every single week, for the 8+ years that followed.
It soon became pretty clear that Elon was directly behind that culture of pragmatic innovation, percolating through all aspects of the company.
Week after week, I’ve witnessed that relentless drive to build features that make people’s lives better and safer, removing roadblocks and unnecessary layers one after another, systematically drilling down to the fundamental “why” – all of this while sleeping at the factory during Model 3 production hell, designing new vehicles, working on BOM reductions, and launching new factories across the globe. During that entire time, through all these chapters, news headlines and other difficult company-wide moments, and while landing rockets on drone ships in the ocean, Elon was still sitting with us in a room every week, often more, with the only objective of building things that will change humanity for the better.
When he announced Tesla would soon start a humanoid robotics program to fuel a future of abundance at AI Day 2021, many once again laughed and doubted. Two years into the program, and Tesla is actively testing early versions of what could well be the first full-fledged humanoid robots equipped with articulated hands autonomously conducting real tasks in a real factory via an end-to-end neural net, running entirely on the bot’s compute hardware. And again, using 2D cameras only.
Whether at Tesla or not, I’d say the same: without Elon, none of any of these amazing things would have ever happened. I can only imagine what a lesser future we’d be living without his involvement and dedication.
This is where you and I differ. I am not a developer but a security engineer, and the things you mention as changing the world are just the opposite for me. I’ve seen videos of people stuck inside hot Tesla vehicles during a firmware upgrade because the doors can’t operate during an update without some convoluted method to open the doors. Opening a freaking door. Ask Hyundai and KIA how the keyless convenience no one asked for worked out when ordinary people have had their vehicles stolen or insurance going up because of a USB key.
One man’s feature is another man’s nightmare. That world-changing vision to me, is nothing but feature creep as a solution no one asked for. He could have focused his vision on low cost EVs and open sourced interoperability of battery stations and repair-ability for wider adoption and actually helped the world transition off of fossil fuels. This is why I could never be a Musk, because my goal wouldn’t be to feature creep and sell a solution no one asked for to impress shareholders – my goal would to be improve adoption and standardization for the overall good of consumers and the community. I’m a fan of Linus Torvalds, not an Elon Musk, and the corporate system doesn’t lend to that model because it self selects for proprietary flashy promises of solutions no one needs that impress shareholders. It’s communities that self-sustain the internet we have today, not corporate CEO’s dreaming of AI or other unsustainable techbro nonsense where the next new thing no one gives a crap about is just around the corner.
People are trying to put food on the table, you think they wish to spend another $20,000 or more for a vehicle with cameras on it that self drives with a touch screen? You think the populace wants another Hyundai situation on its hands? None of his vision has changed the world, it’s just another high priced over-engineered piece of tech that hardly anyone owns, as a future security bomb waiting to explode that’s out of the price range of most of the country.
Again, there are things I agree with.
However, you still don’t see that this person has a completely different way of thinking and motivation. He is not interested in money, presentations and such nonsense. He thinks about much, much bigger things. Its goal is to change humanity.
He wants colonies on Mars so that humanity can survive.
But just look at the essence of Starlink and Neuralink.
The biggest problem in the world at the moment is global warming, and this must be changed in order for humanity to survive. He is not thinking about the present or the next few decades, but much further.
To this day, many people do not even understand what the purpose of buying Twitter is. People are preoccupied with the fact that it has become worthless since you bought it. Do you think he cares? XD
He wanted to create a platform where billions have the opportunity to be informed, unlike on television or on the Internet. Information is power, no one should forget that. But that’s a longer topic. Most people don’t understand how much mainstream media and web2 influence their decisions and affiliations. Everyone is convinced that they are right and it doesn’t even occur to them that they are not.
Change humanity how? You gave an example of robotics, but at the same time this man is telling people how they have to face some hardship and less income or higher cost of living while he’s attempting to automate people out of jobs? You know, the very thing his candidate of choice is against?
Starlink increases availability of internet in rural areas, but it also has cluttered the night sky, and is increasing the amount of space garbage and potential collisions exponentially.
Also, put a colony on Mars for what? They guy is out there supporting a President who’s policies are torching the planet we’re on NOW. How is he out there supporting a guy who says climate change is a hoax and changing humanity?
Again, every goal of his ‘vision’ doesn’t hold up to basic scrutiny as something that improves society. He’s not inventing the transistor, he’s not creating the PC, he’s contributing niche products at best with questionable utility. But listening to the guy speak, you would think he was Nikola Tesla himself, so he most definitely ties his ego to whatever this vision is. Big splashy tech and promises drive stock prices and pump his ego up, just like the execs of dot com boom of the late 90s.
Maybe he’s changing humanity in his own ego-driven mind or in his techbro followers showing up or following conventions, but his 4% US market share of vehicles and expensive satellite internet isn’t doing much for the average person.
I knew it was unnecessary to get into this discussion. I said it before. This leads nowhere and I am very sorry that you see the world from one perspective.
You repeat your own “truth” and it doesn’t even occur to you that you might not be right.
You know, I may be arrogant, but at least I always question myself and whether I’m right. It drives me forward in life and I recommend it to everyone.